Close shop/poi

[Cj-Malone]

Description

Mappers sometimes need help closing a POI, and following the disused lifecycle, eg.

1. @mnalis maintains a list of tags that should be removed when a POI closes. It would be awesome to see that integrated into iD.
2. As far as I can tell, the only way to close a POI in iD (other than manually with the tags) is to change a POI to "Vacant Shop" which leaves some tags mentioned in 1, and is not intuitive. IMO marking a shop disused should be as easy as deleting the POI entirely.

Screenshots

No response

[1ec5]

The current workflow is to use the Downgrade operation, which removes all the business-related keys but preserves the address (and building-related keys, if dual-tagged as a building), then optionally change the feature type to Vacant Shop. The Downgrade operation is bound to the Backspace key (Delete on macOS), which is even easier than deleting.

[Cj-Malone]

Interesting, I didn't know about Downgrade. I can't get backspace to work on Firefox, but I see it in the drop down menu. Also it seems to only be available on ways with a building tag, not building:part or no building tag and when there is an address tag.

It's similar, but not same.

I think this "Close POI"/"Mark disused" feature I'm suggesting should be available with or without address/building tags, should honour the disused lifecycle and should be encouraged more than delete or Downgrade.

The disused life cycle better represents reality and helps mobile app users. StreetComplete will prompt users to update the POI when a new shop opens there. When the object is deleted from OSM, there is no pointer to a vacant POI.

StreetComlete has "It does not exist..." and Every Door has "Mark Defunct" which do this.

[1ec5]

I think this "Close POI"/"Mark disused" feature I'm suggesting should be available with or without address/building tags, should honour the disused lifecycle and should be encouraged more than delete or Downgrade.

I think the intent was to promote Downgrade over Delete wherever it would preserve data. The Downgrade operation also appears on a standalone node that isn’t dual-tagged as a building but is tagged with an address. Originally, iD bound Backspace to the Delete operation, but Downgrade was introduced as an in-between step: the Delete operation was hidden and disabled until you first used the Downgrade operation. Later, #7682 untied the two operations because users were confused that there was no way to delete something.

Maybe as a first step, we can modify the Downgrade option’s help text to say that it’s what you use when a shop closes. The confirmation message that briefly appears after downgrading could come with a little reminder to use the Vacant Shop preset. I mistakenly thought Downgrade was mentioned in the walkthrough tutorial, so that’s another place it could be surfaced. But I do agree that the two-step of Downgrade and Vacant Shop would be pretty undiscoverable, even with those changes.

Personally, I’ve been adding disused:* prefixes and old_name manually using the raw tag editor, but it would be nice to get some built-in support for all that. If we add a separate operation for “closing” a feature, the context menu will have three different ways to tear down a feature, which could be confusing too.

[Cj-Malone]

What's the use case for Downgrade when not closing a POI/How often is it useful? If there is too many options, maybe that's the one to go.

I've also just noticed that iD doesn't remove disused:shop when adding selecting a shop. Maybe that's one of the reasons OSM is collecting POIs with both amenity/shop as well as disused:amenity/shop.

I guess the first thing is actually removing disused:* when selecting a feature.

[1ec5]

What's the use case for Downgrade when not closing a POI/How often is it useful? If there is too many options, maybe that's the one to go.

The Downgrade operation’s use cases overlap with the Delete operation’s use cases, which is why the two operations were previously exposed as a single two-step operation. It can be used when a shop or amenity closes, whether another shop has taken its place or the space remains vacant. But it can also be used when a shop was tagged on the wrong address node by mistake, or when cleaning up vandalism, while encouraging the user to preserve any address data that remains relevant.

I guess the first thing is actually removing disused:* when selecting a feature.

The combination of amenity/shop plus disused:amenity/disused:shop is valid. iD probably shouldn’t strip out the disused:* tags automatically, as it doesn’t have enough context to know that a mom-and-pop restaurant didn’t obviously used to be a Burger King based on its architecture and ghost sign.

Of course, it also can represent history-hoarding. I suppose we could add a tool for more easily cleaning disused tags out of a feature, but I think adding discoverable fields for these tags, a la openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema#215, would do more to incentivize mappers to remove them when they’re no longer relevant. Besides, it would be a good opportunity for tie-ins with OpenHistoricalMap, which should be welcoming that kind of data with open arms: OpenHistoricalMap/issues#478.

[Cj-Malone]

The Downgrade operation’s use cases overlap with the Delete operation’s use cases, which is why the two operations were previously exposed as a single two-step operation. It can be used when a shop or amenity closes, whether another shop has taken its place or the space remains vacant. But it can also be used when a shop was tagged on the wrong address node by mistake, or when cleaning up vandalism, while encouraging the user to preserve any address data that remains relevant.

Ah thanks, like removing duplicates. I understand the appeal now, but I think it's less popular than "Mark Disused".

The combination of amenity/shop plus disused:amenity/disused:shop is valid.

I'm struggling to think of a case where a POI can be both in use and disused. Could you give me an example please.

[1ec5]

Ah thanks, like removing duplicates. I understand the appeal now, but I think it's less popular than "Mark Disused".

Perhaps it would be less frequently used, but the point was similarly to dissuade people from deleting the address outright.

I'm struggling to think of a case where a POI can be both in use and disused. Could you give me an example please.

This former hotel is now a homeless shelter, but it has retained the former hotel’s name. This café is obviously a former gas station by its architecture, and its owner proudly maintains ties to her father’s gas station through the name and logo. This church hall was a worship space until a new one was built next door; they kept the sign on it and everything.